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DLA Indefinite to PIP?


I am on the high Mobility and Care Rates of DLA, but what happens when I am changed to PIP?

I have seen many people mention they are on PIP and it has been awarded for 3 years, and spoken to one person and she was granted PIP Award for 10 years.

Does this mean the 'Indefinite' period of DLA will not exist under the new PIP Allowance.

I recently had my annual letter stating DLA Care and Mobility, both on High Rates are 'indefinite'.

To me that makes no sense whatsoever, 'indefinite' means 'indefinite', not 3 or 10 years!

I would be interested if someone could answer this question and explain why people are only getting 3 or 10 year awards. rolleyes





149 Replies

  • archemedes archemedes SteV3

    From what I understand Les, PIP is replacing DLA.

    Apparently PIP is assessed of a totally different set of criteria, and a certain number of points need to be gained to get it.

    If you Google 'Benefitsandwork' there is a lot of interesting information there about PIP, which is just another way of squeezing those who need help most.

    As to why some people are getting it for longer periods I have no idea, but the search might help you to find an answer.

    All the best


    • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 SteV3

      id like the question answered to how someone can be told there unfit for work and claim like me for 7yrs then they bring in a new system that tells people that they are cured and fit for work.

      georgia is having a strees melt down trying to get help and i am getting quite stressed worring about whats going to happen to me in june

      and even you are puzzled by some of meanings behind the new bennefit format.

      • archemedes archemedes tiswas24537

        I know this is no consolation, but the simple truth I think behind all this is that the Conservatives are dead-set on decreasing the benefits fund, probably (if true to form) to give any surplus to their well-heeled friends.

        There are many very worried disabled people in this country concerned about whether they are going to be starved out of existence.

        What a great reason to vote for the Conservatives at the next General Election, and I don't think.

      • archemedes archemedes tiswas24537

        Remove the 'Con', then add 'Self'.

        What you are left with is 'Self Servative', meaning an individual who claims to have high moral standing but really just wants more deductables on their income tax.

        A person who blindly supports maximizing profits, deregulation, cutting cost, cutting taxes, cutting benefits and then complains "You can't get good service anywhere these days"

      • SteV3 SteV3 tiswas24537

        I found the answer to this question:

        Basically, it depends on a few factors, what sort of disorder is (as in the respect of the main one).

        The disorder must be listed with DWP as a disorder that will never become better over time.

        However, there is a few changes that they will give you the full rates.

        It is also based on the current severity of the disorder.

        A face-to-face interview is more than likely, unless the claiment is on the list of severe disorders, or as very similar results, which would lead to full rates being issued instantly.

        As regards to the length of the PIP Claim this is determined again by the list of what disorders the DWP classes as severe enough not to require a face-to-face assessment, the time factor will differ upon the claiments disorder and sufficient evidence being available to justify the time factor. In most cases this will be 3 years or more depending on the claiments current situation to become progressively worse in a certain time factor.

        @ archemedes (Ron) you are correct DLA will be completely removed, once all current DLA Claiments have been issued with a PIP Application Form. DLA payments will continue until either your DLA expiry date is reached or carried on if PIP is granted and if the rates continue.

        Severe Disorders do not necessarily mean you will automatically place on the top PIP Mobility and Care rates, these are mentioned on a list owned by the DWP. As far as I am aware there is only 4 or 5 medical conditions listed and rare disorders like mine are not listed on it. eek

        Your main priority is that the Application Form is completed correctly and in very much detail as possible. It is vital to your award being issued and the length. If enough evidence is provided no face-to-face interview is done. Health Professional backup may also help your claim.

        Just a case of wait and see I guess.

      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 SteV3

        its diffitcult for me les because i choose to do my treaments in a natrual way because my gp can not offer me anything to really help with out side effects i am so drug sensistive just 2 codien tablest put me hospital twice .

        both of my conditions cause such an impact on my life but how to prove it is such a problem. .sad

      • georgeGG georgeGG tiswas24537

        eekeekhi Les and Tiswas,

        My common sense says there has to be a better way than letting the doctor's medicaments kill you so it will look good on the application form. eek 

        My cynical sense, don't be at all too sure eekeek do you want to look as if you were born yesterday? eek  eek eek 

        (this is the first time I have awarded myself three 'utter glooms'.)

      • SteV3 SteV3 tiswas24537

        Hi Tis,

        Surely, your Doctor has Codeine reports and how it effects you. Codeine is one of the over-the-counter 'opiate' painkiller and highly addictive, and not even I can take it, I get far too many side effects - so for me any other medication that even contains Codeine is a definite 'No' go!

        I can put you in touch with a team that has a 95% success rate of getting people through DLA/PIP/ESA Assessments, they will even come with you to an Assessment or Appeal, many people use them.

        All they ask for is a £1 donation, but in many cases once the Claiment has received their award they tend to give them a larger donation for all the help they provide. They will even help you correctly fill in the Application Form they work all over the UK, and offer you assistance if you need the DWP, etc - Now, ALL calls are recorded due to the that happened previously, they tell you exactly what to ask them BEFORE even mentioning anything about your claim, this is to prevent you being given the 'cold-shoulder' from anyone at DWP/ATOS.

        Let me know if this would be any help, and I'll PM you the details.



      • SteV3 SteV3 georgeGG

        Hi George,

        I can PM you the details, which I will PM Tiswas if she requires them.

        Their ways of dealing with DLA / PIP / ESA or any Benefit form for that matter is all done confidentially, Their forums and whole website is worth reading, it certainly opened my eyes to many things, not just Benefit Entitlement, or if you are receiving the correct amounts, etc.

        They even have letter templates covering numerous categories.

        Let me know and I'll PM you the URL's of the sites.



      • SteV3 SteV3


        I just found this... But I cannot find if this statement is true! eek

        Claimants currently in the receipt of Contribution-based ESA & in the Support Group (Contribution based) will receive PIP High Rates.

        Claimants currently in the receipt of Income-based ESA & in the Support Group will need to attand an assessment interview, are the ones that may lose their benefit.

        Please note this is not yet been confirmed!

      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 SteV3

        oh yes please les this would be of great help having someone to help me fill out my forms and come with me , i get very anxious  when i have to go any where , and the Aspergers makes me easly confused and frustrated as i dont always understand what i am being ask

        ,and when your in pain all the time its hard to think staright and no doubt the stress of a meeting will bring on fatigue which makes it even easier to be confused.

        by twisting questions .  

        doctors dont listen , at my old surgery my gp highlighted in yellow that i was alergic to oral iron ,when i went to the hospital for my preganancy checks 

        the consultant looked at the card and said nonesece never heard of it .

        insisted i took the pills which i didnt because i knew how ill they made me 

        eventuly i got so ill i woke up with memory loss i couldnt remember my name who i was or where i was , it was very scary ,i ended up needing 4 pints of blood at 8 1/2 months pregnant .and in 1984 at the height of the adds crisis .which i was very stressed about .all ready getting stressed about my fourth coming assement in june .

        i more than happy to pay  agood sum for having the support of someone at this time . .


      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 georgeGG

        i wish i could make people understand how ill i get just going to the gp surgery ,i get really hot and sweaty feel sick shake get headaches i am a mess ,and the longer i have to wait the worse the symptoms get untill some times i just cancel and leg it .

        doctors feel thearting because they dont listen they make you feel that you dont understand you rown body . do you honestly think that if i could be pain free with out feeling worse that i wouldnt take a couple of pills a d ay

        you have to be mad . 

        i know several women with f/m all on loads of pills no better of then me still in pain and shattered ones even on a mobility scooter .

        i cope with natrual stuff because i moderate what i do . like i go no where 

        all last summer i went out 4 times and on two of those occasionsions i would have past out  if id been on my own .luckly someone was with me so i went faint but someone held me up .

        i am sick to death of this condition and feel like crying in fact i am  because its so hard and frustrating  for people to explain .how awful

        there life is . sorry george having a bad day .sad


      • SteV3 SteV3 tiswas24537

        Hi Tis,

        Your best bet is using FightBack - they will work with you and word things in ways that ATOS, MAXIMUS or the DWP will understand.

        They will not say not to use non-Natural treatments when you use them, and I can see from your point-of-view why you do.

        Fightback as a 95% success rate, which is very high - their team is not just CAB workers, but lawyers as well - which in itself boosts your chances.

        Those Application forms are difficult for many people not just you.



      • SteV3 SteV3 tiswas24537

        PM's normally go through, they are not publicly displaying and websites, email addresses, etc.. So, in theory they should not block PM's.

        It is just a message between you and the recipient.

      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 SteV3

        thanks les will look into this advice later .fingers crossed they will be able to help me ,because i was thinking of not even bothering to apply this time because i just cant deal with the stress of it .and flares are so painful and crippling.mad

      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 SteV3

        i do use profanity some timeswhen i am in pain or irated but its never aimed at a person its a description of how i feel .and its never the really bad ones .

        iv had abuse on here really nasty calling me a moron and worse ,when it  wasent even my post i was being abused about  and the modareter let that go thru .dosent mke sense to me.confused

      • SteV3 SteV3 tiswas24537

        Well, Tis they have a 95% pass rate, that is very high these days.

        I cannot stress enough that a team like these will be more beneficial to you, especially when a disorder is one that doesn't show physically, mental disorders is what they are going after, well you seen what that one woman was told at an Assessment for ATOS.

        Their teams consist of CAB Advisors, People with Law degrees, etc. and they all work with you, and if there's something you do not understand, all you do is ask them to rephrase it so you can understand what they mean. 

        I would say the same to Georgia as well, they would put her mind at rest, and take the stress away that's normally associated with these meetings she has. I can understand people that have communication problems, it's not an easy world for them at all, but they cannot help the way they are.



      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 SteV3

        thanks les iv emailed them i dont no if or when i will hear back .what with it being weekend . how long do you think i should give them .i dont want to come across as boterthersum.

        i really do hope they understand, theres many famous people thought to have had or have Aspergers ,like Albert einstein, and woody Allen .theres loads more just cant recall them . can you imagine some one like albert as much as a genius as he was trying to fill out one of those  dhs forms .

        he was highly intelegent man on his subject . but couldnt dress himself properly or do small talk . i dont do shopping like most women everything i have is black that way i don thave to think what to put on, the same with foot ware about 20 prs of black flat boots . what people dont understand is that i have like most Aspergers folk a higher than average iq .

        i notice things around me in detail if i watch a programme on a certain subject of interest i will remember a lot of trival data . taking in so much more info than average is very tiring .its called sensory overload .

        i cant do reading and listening to music it brings me to tears , so many interesting documentries i am unable to watch because of annoying music ,now i know you dont have to be aspergers for that to annoy you .

        but most cope ,it makes me stressed and brings me to tears .because icant follow the commentry with background music .to me its like trying to breath underwant it just cant be done.

        if i am out and p/a/f brigade go past with sirens it stress me so bad i react by holding my ears and crying, its the same with any ecessive noise or sudden loud noise ,i hide from it .under the stairs holding my ears if indoors and crying chanting certain frases like its only a noise it will go away its only a noise it will go away ,you can hardly do that at work place well not with out

        being carted of .

        i am so sensistive to noise . light , heat my life is a total misery . cant remember the last time i had a meal out or visted someone, 

        all this is so streesful to live with and even harder to explain . then i have to try and explain the and fatigue  and pain of fibro something eles that cant be seen i just want to run away i get so stressed .with people.

        so fingers crossed these people will get me .sad

      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 georgeGG

        i feel sick hun its only just over 3 months away and i still have no letter to say what is going to happen when it runs out .they only give you 6weeks to get it back to them what if i cant get the help in time .cry

      • georgeGG georgeGG tiswas24537

        Hello Tiswas,

        i understand  your intense anxiety. 

        You have 6 weeks in which you have to make contact and get ready for action in the 6 weeks you have after they give notice.

        Often organisatiosn reply automatically to emails saying they will reply in so many days.

        If they do remind the the day that interval expires. 

        If  no automatic response remind them on day five after your original email. then every second day.

        It is too important to let the grass grow under your feet.

        They will know these times pressures only too well. I hope they will answer quite soon. - with a proper reply and not just an acknowlegement.


      • Emis Moderator Emis Moderator tiswas24537

        I do not read every post in the forums, there are too many so it's not a case of "letting things go". If anyone gives you abuse on here or is being offensive then use the "Report" link and I will action. I cannot action if I'm not aware of the situation.

      • archemedes archemedes Emis Moderator

        Hello there.

        This is just to say that today the forum is running very slow indeed, especially when it comes to the inputting of text.

        This may be due to many people using the site today, but it may also be due to routine maintainance that I know nothing about.

        I just wanted to mention it in case you were not aware.


      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 archemedes

        stressing about reappling for my benefit i find it diffitcult to be in the company of strangers at the best of times so strangers and authority fingers just makes me feel sick .and it dosent even run out  till june ,and i am already making myself ill with it.eek

      • SteV3 SteV3 tiswas24537

        Hi Tis,

        What you need to do, is take a deep breath and let it slowly - and stop thinking of what go wrong which is 'negative' energy, you need to be 'positive'. You're probably thinking I know that's easy for me to say, actually it's not, even with the new hospital I have now. I have probably had 4 nights in that bed, but when I wake up in the mornings, it's like a pain from hell everyday. I guess one day I will get used to the bed, the problem I have is, I am so used to using a metal bar to pull myself up slowly in the mornings, I now have to alter the bed via the remote to do what I cannot do physically myself, I certainly cannot sit up straight first thing in the morning!! Even with the electric bed, I have to do it slowly.

        There's my wife saying you got to let the bed do everything for you, that's what it is for - so, there's me struggling in pain trying to sit up, when all I need to do is push a button, then higher or lower the bed, so I can hold on to a disability chair with side bars, to get  dressed (well, my wife helps me), I have problems even putting a pair of socks on! Then comes the main task moving to the wheelchair, first my spine clicks with a shooting pain, then both knees and that is excruciating pain. But it happens everytime I sit down and try to stand up using a Zimmer, where an Occupational Therapist says to put your weight in to your arms, then push your body on to the Zimmer, if I cannot get up its a case of transferring to the wheelchair!

        It was funny on the first night I got the hospital bed because the mattress inflates pockets of air then lets it out. My wife moved he whole room around, and we went to bed - I was asleep in minutes, and snoring! I got up the following morning, I thought that's strange my wife wasn't in bed. Anyway, I got myself up and went in to the lounge, my wife was asleep on the sofa! I asked her how come you're sleeping in her? she looked at me and said I hate your bed, I thought what can a bed do to someone! "She said, you were snoring and fast asleep, so I didn't want to disturb you, but that mattress kept blowing my hair all over my face with cold air it lets out about every 10 minutes! lol

        Shes moved her bed around now, so it doesn't do that.

        As for the renewal letter, I think you are paid until they stop payments which could be after the date shown, or does your Award letter state differently?



      • tiswas24537 tiswas24537 SteV3

        i wouldnt presume that anyone eles life has less  problems then mine .

        i no i am lucky compared to some .

        i have to walk around all winter with out socks or tights  becasue i cant get them on, i can just about get socks on with a struggle

        if i bring my leg up bent and i lean to the side and then do the same on the other side its just possiable but this i do on rare occasions because it puts a strain on my lower back and hip and iv caused siatica  doing this .

        in the past so i would rather have cold feet .

        weve spent £2000 pounds in 2 yrs on beds because of my body pain just from lying down .so i have some understanding of what its like not to be able to sleep i can get in and out of bed just its a bit like a dying fly esp if i am on my back ,if i stay on my side i am ok . 

        i am glad your sorted bed wise now its awful dealing with health problems if you cant get sleep  . thanks for all your advice etc . my letter hasnt come yet ,i heard back from fbfj they told me to get the letters from my gp that have my diognoses information on .from the hospital

        .the thing is i cant remember excatly when i was diognosed i know its got to be at least 7yrs ago because thats how long iv had my benefit .but they really can be awkward pigs when they want to be .

        i am just dreading asking them because they will fire a lot of questions at me and confuse me then i shall just end up a mess.

        iv got some kind of hormonal thing going on at moment my hair isent growing on my legs or under arms properly i am not bruising ,and my memory is awful i think its something todo with the piturity gland 


        so got to get myself to the doctors for that .i no all this sounds stupid to other people with what most people would say have bigger problems but to us its real . confused

      • W11granny W11granny SteV3

        Dear Les63 can you please let me know the contact info for the people who can help me fill the pip forms. I have top care and mobility DLA awarded to me for life. You said you would send it to him by PM and I have no clue what that means. I am dreading these forms arriving Can you please help me.

      • SteV3 SteV3 W11granny

        Hi W11granny,

        In your post you have stated you are currently on DLA, and were award the Care component at the HIgh Rate and Mobility High Rate.

        Now, the important part which people often overlook. You also stated you were awarded it for 'life', does it actually say 'Life' or 'Indefinite'?  There is a big difference between the two, most people think they mean the same, this is not the case at all.

        If the DLA states 'indefinite' - this means the change over can at anytime between now and 2018.

        Where as, if it states 'Life' then there is no need to worry at the current time, whether your change over will be soon. These are being dealt with at a later date, because your award for 'Life' means exactly that. The chances of attending a 'face-to-face' assessment is very low, because your DLA Award means you have a disorder that will never become better even with medication, and in some cases the condition is known by the DWP, as one that will become progressively worse over the years. Also, it will depend on your current age, many now will never be placed on PIP either - you stay on DLA.

        PM stands for 'Private Message' - I do not normally post details now because the details are in a 'Pinned' thread under Benefits - I can give you other websites that may help you, but personally I would not worry until you hear from the DWP. I am on 'indefinite' DLA, so with me, it will be a PIP Assessment, but I am expecting a Paper Assessment Review not a 'face-to-face' assessment due to my disorder.



      • W11granny W11granny SteV3

        Hi Les thanks for your reply. I am 60 and have a life award I have received letters saying that before 2018 I will be invited to apply for pip. I wanted to know if you could give me details of the people who I contact to ask for help with the forms when they come. I would really appreciate this information. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.

      • Scott525 Scott525 SteV3

        Hi Les

        I am about to go on PIP but I am really worried about the outcome. Can you give me the name of that organisation that helps with forms etc. I am in Birmingham. Really worried about how this will affect me.

        Thanks alot.


      • Tinkerbelle58 Tinkerbelle58 SteV3

        Hi Les

        i need help from an advisor to fill out forms I am currently on higher rate Dallas for care and mobility indefinitely. Just been sent a letter to say I need to claim pip. I live in Swansea do you know if I can get help from an advisor please

      • phil67231 phil67231 SteV3

        Les you said "Where as, if it states 'Life' then there is no need to worry at the current time, whether your change over will be soon. These are being dealt with at a later date, because your award for 'Life' means exactly that"  Who told you that???? I was awarded DLA for Life in 1995 and at some point during the early noughties it suddenly changed and I recall reading that this happened to everyone?  I am confused having just lost higher nothing?

      • Ladywriter1968 Ladywriter1968 tiswas24537

        There is not much support out there for people who are sick, that is the problem a lot of us are just thrown on the back burner to get on with it. Unless you are forward and speak up you get nothing in this life, but a lot of people cant do that though, I do because I have to despite my pain. But I have always been this way as never had anyone else to speak up for me.

      • pam02338 pam02338 SteV3

        There are a lot of errors in this reply, so I would not advise following any advice contained here. The DWP do NOT have a 'list' of disabilities which qualify claimants for PIP.  The only people likely to be awarded benefit without a face to face medical on account of their condition are those people who are terminally ill, who can apply under special rules.  According to DWP this means having 12 months or less to live - even these people must prove they are terminally ill and currently only 45% of claims made under the special rules are allowed.

        With the exception of those people who have two amputated legs (either above or below knee) - who will automatically qualify for the enhanced rate mobility allowance (but NOT the daily living allowance as they will have to be assessed as for everyone else ) - all other claimants wIll be assessed on the effect their disability or condition has on their day to day lives.  It is the effect of the disability, NOT the disability itself that counts.

        When completing the application form it is vital that you read the questions carefully, make sure you have understood each question and that your answers are specific to each question, answering as fully as you can. Before answering think about your disability and how it affects the activity they are asking about, give details of any pain or discomfort you experience either during or after the activity, tell them about any aids or appliances you use for any activity (for example a shower stool because you cannot stand in the shower), and also about any help you need from another person. If you have an aid or appliance but still need help from someone else, it's important to say so, as is telling them about any aids or appliances you cannot use (for example, a long handled shoe horn is unlikely to be of any use to someone with paralysed or immobile feet, as they would need assistance from someone else to place their feet in shoes properly).  Remember that it is not enough to say that you cannot do something, you must tell them why and what help you need with each activity.  Remember also that the more information you can give and the clearer idea the DWP have about how your disability affects you,the less likely they are to ask for a face to face assessment.  Any gaps you leave in the information you give, means that the assessor can ( and usually does) make assumptions which may not be correct.

        Anything you say on the application form can be used to assess your needs, so remember that once you have said something you cannot take it back, and in the event of you challenging the decision, a review or tribunal hearing would want to know why you may now be saying something which contradicts what you put on the form.  Make sure you include how long it takes you to complete each activity and don't guess.  When it comes to the distances for the mobility component, it's really important that you don't  guess - measure how far you can comfortably walk and at what point you have to stop because of pain or other discomfort.  

        Above all, remember that for all activities, to be judged able to do something, you have to be able to do it safely, repeatedly (as often as necessary throughout the day) and in a reasonable time period (no more than twice the maximum time it would take someone without a disability).  Account also has to be taken of the type and duration of pain or other discomfort you experience, and whether you can do an activity to an acceptable standard - for example if you can walk up to 50 metres you would qualify for mobility allowance at the standard rate, but if you experience pain and have to sit and rest frequently, you may be judged as unable to walk the distance in a reasonable time, or if you are unable to walk the distance more than once in a day because of pain you experience afterwards, you may be judged as unable to complete it repeatedly.  Similarly, if you fall frequently because of weakness in your legs or feet, you may be judged as not able to complete it to an acceptable standard.  All of these scenarios would likely qualify someone for the enhanced rate under the reliability criteria, despite their ability to physically walk further than the maximum allowable distance for the enhanced rate - it is the manner in which they do it that counts.

        Finally. Keep a copy of absolutely everything you send to the DWP -the application form and any supporting evidence you send with it.  It will be invaluable in the event of an appeal.

      • pam02338 pam02338 SteV3

        Hi. Completely untrue.  With DLA, if you were on the higher rate care component, you automatically went into incapacity benefit support group. Once this was changed to ESA, all links between the two benefits were severe, and there is absolutely no link between ESA and PIP.  Most people will have a face to face assessment and it is not the disability that counts, but the effect it has on the activities being assessed.

      • SteV3 SteV3 pam02338

        Hi Pam,

        I'm puzzled - what brought ESA in to the equation?

        I have not stated there is a link between ESA & PIP, there was talk awhile ago about amalgamating the two, when both were applied for at the same time. This was never confirmed by the government, yet.

        Not everyone will receive a 'face-to-face' assessment either, there are two reasons why:

        1. You have a Neurological disorder or condition that is progressively becoming worse over time, there is 4 or 5 disorders in this category. I am not sure which ones are listed because they are rare.

        2. You have multiple conditions, which when all put together makes it impossible for you to achieve virtually anything.

        I think the new PIP Application Award forms have started circulating, which have been cut down drastically from the original version. It is supossedly similar in size to the old DLA forms.

        We all know how PIP is assessed and awarded, but in some cases, the DLA 'infinite' or 'life' are being changed over directly to PIP Care & Mobility Enhanced Rates, and a 10 year period maximum added. It would not be beneficial to the claimant or the DWP, to put a lower date, if a condition will just deteriorate over time.

        Invalidity Benefit was changed back in the 1990's, (amended in July 1995) to Incapacity Benefit and then to Employment & Support Allowance in the support group - but this is not related in anyway to PIP, at this time.

        If a person claimed prior to the 1995 Amended Act, and have never had any 'gaps' between their initial claim for Invalidty Benefit and ESA in the Support Group then they are also Exempt from Taxing on their ESA. Which is stated by the HMRC.

        I do not userstand why you have mentioned ESA on this thread which is titled "DLA Indefinite to PIP".



      • pam02338 pam02338 SteV3

        Les.  There is no list of disorders held by DWP - don't know where you got this info.  There used to be a list of disabilities which attracted higher rate care for DLA and AA but these have long since been scrapped since DWP outsourced the assessments for these benefits. PIP is not judged on the disability itself, but on the effect it has on everyday life.  What they have got is a list of conditions, such as neurological conditions, which can only be assessed by HCPs with experience of these specific conditions, but I believe these are now being replaced by what they call the 'champion' system. A assessor can contact one of these champions, or experts in various conditions, if they run into problems during an assessment. 

      • pam02338 pam02338 SteV3

        I cannot stress strongly enough that the DWP do not have any such lists. Claimants are assessed on the effects of the disability on their everyday life, and not on the disability itself.  It is the assessment provider who decides whether a face to face assessment is needed and these are decided on a case by case basis depending on the strength of the medical evidence available. There are no disability specific lists.

      • pam02338 pam02338 SteV3

        Your post to which I replied mentioned something about higher rate DLA qualifying people for support group in ESA.  This is what I was referring to as this is no longer the case since incapacity benefit was changed to ESA - there is now no link between DLA/PIP and ESA.

      • pam02338 pam02338 SteV3

        The DWP changed the term life award to indefinite award several years ago.  The changeover from DLA to PIP is expected to be completed for all claimants regardless of their DLA award, by the end of 2017 as the full roll out is now underway. In addition, there is no condition which exempts you from a face to face assessment and there are no lists of such conditions held by DWP.  There used to be for DLA but PIP does not look at the actual disability but examines it's effect on the claimants life - so the condition itself is irrelevant.  Most claimants will have a face to face assessment as this was the intention of PIP because there were so many people on DLA without ever having had a medical. 

      • SteV3 SteV3 pam02338

        Hi Pam,

        Let me correct you on this. And I just checked this myself on the Governments website, the document, eventhough it is for Medical Assessors is available to the public (Due to lack of security of many British Government Documents). There are many documents on the gov't website for staff purposes only - but they are on the 'surface web' hence crawled by Google, and it is not rocket science to gain access to them, including actual DWP assessments.

        It is available and there is 2 documents, since the PIP one was updated in May 2016, as it states, the following.

        PIP Assessment Guide

        A DWP guidance document for providers carrying out assessments for

        Personal Independence Payment

        Version 0.4

        XX January 2013

        Updated on


        May 2016

        Publication Size: 149 pages

        So, most claimants will have a 'face-to-face' - I know for a fact that is incorrect. My next door neighbour had a letter that states she will be moved off DLA to PIP shortly.

        It also states that her payments will not be affected in anyway. I have seen the letter myself, so I know it goes on.

        And there is Paper Review Assessments only, these go through the same system but, require no assessment, because it would be wasting money on a progressive disorder! And that also exists!



      • SteV3 SteV3


        First a quote from one of your messages:

        "Hi. Completely untrue.  With DLA, if you were on the higher rate care component, you automatically went into incapacity benefit support group."

        I was not on DLA High Rate Care Component when I was changed over to Incapacity Benefit. I was on the DLA Middle Rate Care Component, so you have that incorrect as well.

        Quote from that publication:

        Will the information be used?


        DWP and their assessment providers only request a report where it is

        needed and not in every case. The medical report you provide will then be considered when producing an assessment report. Departmental decision makers are required to consider all the available evidence before deciding on benefit entitlement.

        I've read all your replies and you are contradicting DWP's own publications, even on PIP, which is wrong.

        You need to read the PIP publications before correcting me on here...

        All DLA Claimants changed over by 2017 - somehow I don't think so according to DWP records!

        I am not answering anymore of your contradicting messages, if the moderator wishes to lock or delete this topic, he can I have no problems.

        You seem to be trolling - but you don't bother me - everyone will get wise to your antics before long.



        P.S. - Good-Bye Troll

      • pam02338 pam02338 SteV3

        I'm not a troll and you are very childish.  I posted a factual account intended to help people with PiP applications and you proceeded to pick it to pieces and provide incorrect information instead, which as I have already said, is unacceptable on a site where people look for genuine help. Everything I have said about PiP is based on my own experience within my disability support group and from being part of a major campaign group heavily involved with all stages of the various PiP consultations.  All information provided here is readily available online.  Don't worry, I won't be back.

      • SteV3 SteV3 debra69891

        Hi Debra,

        Sorry, about that rant I had above - but being accused of lying is not something I will stand for, especially since I could back up everything I stated and the other woman could not.

        Anyway, back to you! How far are you with a PIP Application Award Form? I don't want to really want to "beat around the bush" so to speak.

        Please let me know how far you are at the moment, and I'll send you to the correct website.



      • debra69891 debra69891 SteV3

        I've had my assessment and according to my answers I exceed the twelve points required for PIP, but am worried as I've heard so many horror stories. I have primary progressive ms, have had over twenty falls in the last eighteen months. There is no safe distance I can walk and I have chronic fatigue and pain. What do you think by odds are? My GP gave me a letter of support which I took with me, Deb

      • Terry3fy Terry3fy SteV3

        Hi Les

        Ive only just found this site,I sent off my claim form for P.I.P. 2 weeks ago Including reports from my Occupational Therapist and my G.P. I have received a text from D.W.P. 1 week ago saying they have enough info and my claim has bee passed to decision maker

          Looking on the dark side could I ask you to let me have the contact details for the team mentioned in your reply to Tis...By the way I did have an indefinate award for full car and mobility on D.L.A

         I give you my humble thanks in advance




      • janet79037 janet79037 SteV3

        Hi Les, I would very much appreciate it if you could put me in touch with the people that give the hekp you mention changing from DLA to PIP. I have an indefinate award and I think early next year I will have to change to PIP. I do feel very worried about it, because I have a number of things wrong and I need hekp to put them all across. Thank you.

      • Pike Pike SteV3

        Hi Les 

        I am reading this post and am very interested  with the group you mention that can help. The whole process of this happening (and it will be soon) fills me and my family with utter terror because as with many things like this you only really get to hear and read about the bad parts so would it be possible for you to send the details of the team please please pretty please :-)

      • W11granny W11granny pam02338

        Hi Pam Les is right my friend just got her pip award and had no such face to face interview. She had 2 different social workers backing her claim. She also had to renew her ESA and same thing no interview. It tells you on the DWP website the list of health issues that are considered to get worse instead of better.

      • Sue-wong Sue-wong SteV3

        Hello Les,

        I have just seen this thread and am very interested to know about the team you are talking about. Would you be able send me the details please? 

        Best wishes


      • Rrrrr64582 Rrrrr64582 SteV3

        Hi i been reading through forum as i got a assesment and scared witless by it i suffer mental health problems and have recently slip my disc in back and its dehidrayted my partner my carer but she suffer from anxiety and depression plus a skin condition. So i am worried asking her to it would it be possible to send information of this charity to me if possible many thanks any help greatly appriected

      • PAUL1458 PAUL1458 SteV3

        We delete content if it doesn’t meet the requirements in our Terms & Conditions.

      • Just-lou Just-lou SteV3

        Could you please pm any links to me Led? I just started my claim today over the phone. Just waiting for the form to come through. The guy on the phone also told me decision times are quite long due to the DLA people who have had to reapply for PIP which I think is disgraceful. I suffer from a few mental health issues as well as phyical ones and anxiety over forms gets me big time. My heart goes out to those who need to reapply. Its a sad state off affairs!

      • kerensmum kerensmum SteV3

        Hi Les I'm hoping that you might be able to pm me the details of the.people that could help me with a pip mandatory reconsideration. I'm so worried as my poor hubby on having to transfer to pip from DLA lifetime high rate mobility and care because he just missed the age cut off date has only been awarded low rate care after a face to face Atos assessment where the assessor has stated almost the opposite to everything we told him. We desperately need some help please

        Came across your post on here and wondered if you could pass on details to me.

        Thank you so much.

      • jacky24954 jacky24954 Pike

        Hi, Worksandbenefit site is really quite an eye opener it really does help you answer the questions more effectively..For instance can you go to unfamiliar places, however what is ment by that is unfamiliar places means able to use public transport...I am on dla for both high rate indefinatley...The pip form really doesant explain that you have to use aids only with the help of your carer, if you dont mention this they will assume you can use them unaided..I filled out the form with as much information as I could as the pip forms requests....However I went to the assessment even after requesting a home assessment... I was treated with non respect or dignity it was really intimidating all the way though..The nurse was so angry because i had filled in so much information she couldn't read it... We are told at the beginning of the form to fill in as much information as we can ...she had only started to read it before i went in for the assessment.....she was so angry I cant read your form i will have to start from the beginning I am so behind.... wouldn't listen to my answers tried to persuade me to agree with her answers but I wouldnt this got her very frustrated....but i was not going to be intimidated by this nurse...She was personal in her comments about my illnessess undermining them all the time...When i got home and over the last few days I have been writing notes about the way she treated me and my carer...Just waiting now for that brown letter to come and take it from there if need be reconsider -appeal -make a complaint against the assessor......Please check worksandbenefits sit and it worth while joining this sight I could never have filled out the form with out their help....These assessors should not treat us in a demeaning way..

      • lesleymargaret1 lesleymargaret1 SteV3

        Hi Steve hope your still available on this forum I have since 2015 been awarded contribution based esa and in the support group after attending an horrific medical then I applied for pip again was sent miles away for a medical , I was only awarded pip at low rate since feb 2015 I have never been on benefits always worked since I was 16 unfortunately I have kidney defects and severe mobility issues and was gutted when my employer ended my contract of 20 yrs due to ill health so reading your forum it should suggest that I should have been awarded high rate pip can u send me the link for that reading , I have 4 children and I can't survive on this income it's causing mortgage arrears and just making my condition worse , xxx

      • aishah80 aishah80 SteV3

        Hi  im a single mum who was a health care assistant and due to suffering chronic bain pain siatica and slip discs can no longer do the job i was on a sick note for two months but am not able to return to this job and dont think i can work any other job because i have to ly down to feel comfortable and less pain what can i claim in terms of a benefit esa or something else i can continue getting a sick note amd have all the medical problems information with gps what can i do i am struggling financially i have 5 children and single parent with no support please please can someone help me !!

      • lisa24871 lisa24871 Just-lou

        I’m afraid I am in the same boat, I couldn’t send my form back as my sibling was sectioned and it caused me immense difficulties, if you get any leads would you let me know and I would do the same for you. Good luck x

    • UK-Ven-medicate UK-Ven-medicate SteV3

      Id be intrigued to know the answer as I am on DLA indefinetly

      • jessica 78456 jessica 78456 UK-Ven-medicate

        Sadly many who have had indefinite claims have ether had them stopped or reduced, once on pip there s no such thing as indefinite. In reality the pip claim will go well if yr medical evidence supports it and the health care professionals for pip don't talk 💩. The amounts of lies and assumptions they make, there's been so many complaints about them. Depending on yr condition u can request a home visit make sure you have s friend or family member taking notes and mention I will be making a request for a copy of the medical notes, taking at the assessment. If yr not well enough to do any physical examination. State sorry iam not well enough and in to much pain. The so called professionals seem to think if u can sit and lift yr foot of the floor u can climb a mountain assumptions all round honestly. Good luck

    • ItsMe67491 ItsMe67491 SteV3

      Hi Les

      I believe it is to do with age.  After a certain age (not sure if its around 60) if your on indefinate DLA you will stay on it, but if your under the age it has to change to PIP.  My son and I have just had a huge battle over it as due to turning 16 he had to re apply in his own right under the new PIP policy which he was denied.  Eventually after a written appeal and then a tribunal they finally reversed their decision and he had a much lower rate pip awarded but only for 2 years.  If you do have to re apply to PIP and you are declined it you just have to battle it out as i believe they are declining the majority of applications in the hope that they'll not bother contesting it. 

      Good luck.

    • joi lynda94977 joi lynda94977 SteV3

      Could you please give me the details of the team who can assist with DLA/PIP advice, info, forms, interviews etc.  you mentioned they have 95% success rate and £1 donation request to cover their services.


      • phil67231 phil67231 SteV3

        I do not have time to read 57 replies but I presume you are told indefinite actually mean not definite, apparently!  I was awarded DLA mobility "for life" before it changed to indefinite and I was so confident it would be maintained under PIP I volunteered to switch early and after a protracted PIP process including a spooky face-to-face medical, 2 days ago I was informed that my higher rate Mobility is stopped entirely in 2 weeks time.  It is my opinion that the orthopedics dept @ hospital colluded by stating my spine was fine despite several past reports stating the opposite and they failed to mention I had undergone spinal surgery 3 times, shocking affair.  The problem is I was not prepared to guild the liily and I admitted that at times I can mange short walks but more often than not I am housebound and they removed it.   I am (evidentially) fairly sure "members of communities" are being informed who is claiming mobility to encourage unrest so I prefer to be poor than ill with anxiety so they can shove the benefit were the sun don't shine.  Ironically I should have been awarded Mobility due to issues surrounding isloation and anxiety as I suffer from severe cobat related PTSD too but they ignored that medical evidence too.  Its become a cruel country and it will only get worse after Brexit.

        • Ladywriter1968 Ladywriter1968 SteV3

          I have read about these changes, I am not on any benefit but cant work due to sciatic severe pain currently, so I decided to apply for PIP, I was told it takes them 16weeks to go through before I will even hear anything, I already tried for a freedom pass to help me with public transport costs to and from hospitals but they failed me on this. Because I could walk a few steps without collapsing on the floor or passing out they failed me. some rules attached to these benefits is so stupid, for example to get a freedom pass you can if you have no arms, so how are they supposed to hold the pass then. If you are in a wheelchair, not all stations has disabled access and sure they just offer this at the worse possible situation for a person as they know they will be far to sick to even use it. I completed the pip one and sent it back, they did say they get a medical report from my gp which is good, the freedom pass side they dont even bother with that and have no interest in your doctors details for your health. I dont understand why PIP is for a certain amount of years though, a person is not suddenly going to get miraculousy better and a lot of employers do not want to take on sick people as they know they are in to much pain or will have lots of hospital visits. Its just another way to try and shove sick people off benefits.

          • jessica 78456 jessica 78456 Ladywriter1968

            It's crap , but pip is not work related it's based on care and mobility needs and the criteria for 12 points on pip mobility can be a few things one of u can walk more than 1 meter but less than 20 u should get 12 points. All on DWP will in the next year be moved on to pip wether it was awarded indefinitely or not. Unless under 16 . 65 + goes to attendance allowance which only pays for the care side. Esa is for works means tested. The government are most definitely putting a stop to people's claims altogether or reducing there points. The feed back is that the hcp medical assessment, advisor are trained to make assumptions and do not write the facts or the truth . Have some one take notes ask the assessor name and profession . Ask for a copy of there report . They will tell u they don't make the decision. But realistically they have a massive input as to which way the claim will go via there report . If medical evidence shows nothing has changed or will get worse or you've had to go to tribunal to get yr award. Then they should leave u alone for at least 3 year. If award is successful they also put a review date on as to when the DWP will review ur claim wether it's end date is in site or not. This whole new review policy is an excuse to remove pple s awards . They say it's to prevent back log s when the claims are due to end. Yet they manage to do a review in 8 wks tops . Iam not convinced this is the real reason they brought this in , they are getting rid of dla for adult and moving them to pip as it's probably the only way they can Legally take and indefinite claim away . Just my opinion

        • Wanda321 Wanda321 SteV3

          Hi Les

          i realise it's a year since you posted the following, but would really appreciate if you could forward me details x

          "I can put you in touch with a team that has a 95% success rate of getting people through DLA/PIP/ESA Assessments, they will even come with you to an Assessment or Appeal, many people use them' 

        • Biggyinn Biggyinn SteV3

          I have just been awarded PIP (both enhanced rates till 2026)

          I am in the final award (august -september 2016) for DLA mobility high / care medium

          I know others in the same boat ,

          2 Yearly award ... Another 3years .....sometimes you cant even guess

          • ben89304 ben89304 SteV3

            Hi les I am waiting for my face to face switch from dla to pip can u help me in any way with some advice I'm on higher rate rate mobily n I'm really worried I'm also on support group ESA n could with some advice I'm on indefinite so can u give me some web sites that can help me I live in Manchester m14 

            • amber54 amber54 SteV3

              Hey Les, I am currently on DLA High Rate Care Low Rate Mobility for Bipolar Disorder and BPD. I notice you mentioned groups that can support you in filling in the forms etc that have a high success rate. I am already pretty anxious, I may also need someone to accompany me to a face to face assessment. Please let me have the details of these groups, I am based in London. Thanks so much.

              • bigsteve2312 bigsteve2312 SteV3

                les please cn you give me some advice on what to say when i get the dreaded call to switch from dla to pip ive been on dla since 1997 and was awarded it for indefinate peroid i also get low care im on so much medication and im not good at filling forms in or what to say im on 19 different medications the list is oxycontin 60mg, oxycontin 20 mg oxynorm for breakthrough pain 20mg atorvastatn,20mg doxasasin 4mg, bendroflumethazide 2.5 mg temazipam 10 mg diazepam, 5mg mirtrazipine45mg qunine sulphate 300mg gaviscon 500mg metformin1000mg ramapril10mg sitagliptin100mg dapaglflozin 5mg amlodipine 10mg paracetamol 500mg im in constant pain cant walk a few feet before on set of immense pain im awating having 2 discs removed plus spinal fusion im in o much pain at night with my legs sciataica i cant sleep i have lots of side affects of the medcation as you can imagine im dreading hving my dla taken or dropped i feel suicidal on most days now i dont get out without having to be pushed around in my wheelchair please any advice would be great you sound like you been thru the mill so im sure u understand thnks steve im getting tired now just writing this

                • phil67231 phil67231 bigsteve2312

                  On the basis of your description you should be OK.  But the best advice I could give is to get expert help (CAB etc.) and ask them to fill in your forms from the start.  I am not the best person to ask as I manged to go from a DLA award given for life to 0 points for PIP mobility and I have had all the spinal surgery you are waiting for plus more since the DLA award was made.  Additionally I am since diagnosed with severe spondylosis which effects my balance and so makes walking dangerous, every step I take is in pain but while it is supose to matter, the truth is disregarded.  

                  I am since diagnosed with severe COPD too which of course leaves me breathless most of the time.  Also since being deemed as requiring permanent help I am diagnosed with severe anxiety, depression and military service related PTSD which alone should have provided mobility PIP too due to risks imposed to me and the public, but my assessor ingnored those dangerous facts too ... they infer dla claimants are cheating the system but it is the system that chets them.  I missed the deadlline of 1 month for appeal so they are refusing to grant arbitration but we will see about that!

              • jessica 78456 jessica 78456 SteV3

                Nothing is indefinite, I am seeing people who have been on dla for year have there whole claim took of them when going from dla to pip, or they have had it reduced. I was awarded standard rate care low mobility in 2013 we asked for reconsideration on the mobility side . It was upheld, we took it to tribunal it was still up held. Welfare right s took it to upper tribunal down London, on the ground s it the first tribunal did not follow the laws set out by the secutary of state. Second tribunal was allowed and awarded me the highest rate of mobility, untill Sep 2017. I was issued a review form in October 2016 on it I was stating there was no change and sent further medical evidence. I received a letter 2 days ago they want me to go to a medical??? I've rang and requested they come to me they asked why ? Well if they d read my medical notes they see am not able. Giving that the DWP decision maker is supposed to read all previous evidence and my form states no change and I've sent further evidence. Why would he need the help of another's medical . When previously the evidence etc b4 now was engough to award me ??? They are using the transition of DWP to pip and the review form s as and excuse to end poles awards sooner rather than later or to reduce the points awarded. I believe all assessment s should be recorded and copy giving to the claimant and the DWP . To prove what is been said by both parties. Because from what i am hearing the medical assessor s are telling a lot of lies. Wounder if there on a bonous to get pple of benefits. Jees I worked all my life until the last 3 year I've paid into the system yet have to fight to get anything back .

                • jean49078 jean49078 SteV3

                  Hi lez I've been on DLA for 5 year and had make a new claim for pip I've been called up for face to face assement 3 days before Christmas never been before absolutely terrified any feedback off anyone that's been or what to expect be very grateful just signed up today seems to be a lot of information on here jean

                  • Annieearls Annieearls SteV3

                    Hi there Les63

                    Would you mind if you sent me the team who may be able to help with my PIP application please.

                    I'm really struggling to find anyone wh would help fight my corner and assist me.

                    Many thanks.

                    • martin64709 martin64709 SteV3

                      It means they are abolishing dla indefinite altogether may be this goes against our human rights so there are certain question in the new test if you dont get enough points you wont get pip even if your dla said indefinate and the new test is so much harder not sure what can be done we all need to unite and fight fir our rights its so easy to take money off the weak and disabled and to gudge someone they dont know some illnesses are not visible to the eye exspecaily when the people assessing you are not medicly minded only reading from a set rule of points. Indefinate should mean Indefinate,seek legal advice hope things go your way.

                      • jessica 78456 jessica 78456 SteV3

                        If yr born before a certain date And already 65 I get to keep it indefinite. But other than that there s no such thing as indefinite any more those awarded 10 yrs ect must have terrible health issues with no change expected. If for example yr awarded 3 yr, they review you after 2. They review people a yr beforehand there claim is due to end. The reason for dla to pip, is because very few on dla had medical s if any. But the now people are having medical s, it's good thing and a bad thing. As most hcp who assess people are trained to make assumptions and tell lies . So those who genuinely need it arnt getting it. Good luck


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