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Anhaga Anhaga

Strong Bones Support Group

A few of us have been discussing ways to make our bones stronger without resorting to bisphosphonates.  This seems like a good place to carry on the conversation.  

147 Replies

  • beverly52803 beverly52803 Anhaga

    Read only the original post re osteoporosis as the thread was very long.

    I was diagnosed with osteopinia in the past. Took Fosomax in my 50's and my bones improved to those"of a 30 year old". I stopped taking it at that point as I had read of complications. Years later my bones are getting weaker again, but apparently not to the point of requiring Fosomax again. (am now 68). I take vitamins including D and calcium with magnesium. From everything I have read the body absorbs vitamins and minerals far better via food than supplements. There are easily available lists of foods to eat. Other than that it's exercise and working with weights that are recommended. I've slacked off with weights. I do Qi Gong, treadmill if not outdoors walking and swimming for 45 minutes when it's warm enough, gardening. I find it difficult to be disciplined re exercise no matter how good it is for you, unfortunately.

    • Anhaga Anhaga beverly52803

      The thread was getting long!  That's why we've moved here.  I know that Vitamin K2 is really important for proper absorption of Calcium.  It's the vitamin which makes sure Calcium goes into the bones and isn't depostied where it's not wanted (e.g. blood vessels, organs).  Not K1 which we can get from our leafy greens.  Most of us are now deficient in K2 because of changes to the way animals are raised so we need to take a supplement, unless we can eat foods from grass-fed animals (meat, dairy, eggs).

      Regarding the Fosamax, I think it's no longer recommended that people with osteopenia be given bisphosphonates, although some medics may still prescribe them.  I know what you mean about the exercise.  I've just taken up Nordic walking, and at first I thought I'd be too embarrassed to use the poles in public, but it turns out I'm a bit of a natural for using them, so it's okay - but it is tiring!

  • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Anhaga

    Hi All

    As a follow-on to the discussion about zinc supplements, copper is the other supplement that goes with zinc. It seems that if you take one of these, you should also take the other. Both assist in the formation of the collagen upon which the calcium will be depositied. I went searching this morning and found 2mg Chelated Copper which seems to be satisfactory so I'll add that to my ever growing list. Pick me up and shake me and I'll rattle. Must check on that when I'm doing the jumps which it is time to do now.

    Best regards

    Colin

     

    • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Anhaga

      It's actually not easy to find out what your level is. I don't think that my GP would sanction tests like that so I need to find an alternative way of finding out. There are suggestions on the search sites so I'll have a trawl amongst them and see if I can come up with something useful.

    • beverly52803 beverly52803 Aristotle13

      I think it's scientifically proven these minerals and vitamins are necessary for bone formation, but has it been proven that taking them in supplement form actually works? That's always my issue. Re the Fosomax that was nearly 20 years ago. I think Boniva is the name I hear mentioned nowadays. After my experience with Fosomoax I wouldtake only take whatever was prescribed long enough to see positive changes. I had decided to take less of the Fosomax once I got positive results, but when my doctor heard that she was pretty annoyed and said there were no studies showing that a smaller amount would do anything so I just stopped taking it altogether. No problems ensued. All this maintenance gets to be a bit much after a while. No wonder people used to die at a younger age (we've added ten years since 1950), but it does require some effort and a bit of hypochondria!

    • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

      Hi All

      ​Just been checking what vitamins/supplements I'm taking and don't think copper is in any of them interestingly.  As I'm trying to eat more healthily, hopefully I will ingest copper in my diet. xx

    • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

      Colin,

      ​Be interesting if you can find out a way.  I mean we're probably all taking stuff in the hope that it helps, and hoping nothing fights with anything else we're taking.  Really very much a question of balance.

      ​The magnesium I take does include B vitamins which are obviously important and folic acid. 

      ​I've also started taking coconut oil....tho that is more for my general health and wellbeing as it is apparently brilliant at fighting anti viral or infections smile  Am mixing it with warm orange juice and using it to cook with more too. 

      Take care everyone

      kind regards

      ​Carrie

    • carrie94038 carrie94038 beverly52803

      Hi Beverly

      ​Yes I think you are right, it does make sense and seems to be scientifically proven.  I am staying away from any of the AA Bisphosphonates; Fosamax, Binosto, Fosavance all under same heading as AA.   Boniva appears to be Ibandronate rather than Alendronate but maybe it is same heading I'd have to check. 

      ​And you are so right, it DOES take effort, time and a bit of hypochondria!  But the medics do seem to be lead by drug companies in my mind...or perhaps I am just to untrusting!

      ​Take care

      ​kind regards, Carrie

    • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

      Dear Colin, Beverley, Jean and Eileen,

      ​defo agree with you what you said....good luck Beveley We have indeed become a small support group which may grow....if it hadn't been for Jean, Coln and Eileen, I would be struggling far more smile 

      ​Sorry, tired tonight, but will try and message more in next few days smile

      ​Kind Regards, Carrie

    • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Anhaga

      Hi Anhaga - Jean

      I came across another lady with OP earlier today, in the conversation 'any-one-had-a-dexa-scan-that-showed-improvement-in-bone'  Her name is Jill0890 and I left the link to the new page with her and she's going to have a look.

      Well I gather that she posted but included some commercial names and the mods deleted her post.  I've advised her and hopefully she will try again.

      Regards

      Colin

    • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 carrie94038

      Hi Carrie,

      Just trawling around a bit and thought that I would send greetings and hope that were a little recovered.

      I sent a post to Eileen on the other site and also hopefully assisted a lady called Jill by pointing her in this direction.

      Had a good  gym day and upped the weight level as I commented previously and that will stay for several weeks. Got some more kiwifruit and have gotten used to it and actually like it. All the info that I had on them got wiped out with the hard disk so need to re-read some stuff.  I'll get it back again shortly.

      Even got some more gardening and wood chopping dome as well as progressing the story further.

      The cat is happy because I just fed her. She'll be wanting fussing soon!

      I'm burbling again while avoiding doing some more at the things that must be done.

      I understand your tiredness and just ask that you don't struggle with it too much, that will sap your strength and you may need it.

      We'll be thinking of you,

      do take care.

      Kindest Regards

      Colin

    • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Anhaga

      I was really impressed with your description of your journey and I like the idea that if you can develop as you say, you could publish your story as I intend to publish mine which is progressing nicely.

      I now have several books which I use for reference but will not generally publish any of the titles but they will be available in a private post..

      Best of luck with your development

  • jill0890 jill0890 Anhaga

    We delete content if it doesn’t meet the requirements in our Terms & Conditions.

    • jill0890 jill0890 Anhaga

      We delete content if it doesn’t meet the requirements in our Terms & Conditions.

    • Anhaga Anhaga

      My Osteoporosis Journey:  Background – “high risk” small-boned Caucasian female over 65, taking prednisone for polymyalgia rheumatica since June 2015, suffered broken leg (tibial plateau) when leg was severely twisted when I walked on ice February 2014. My T-score I is -2.0 but I am in the high risk category. When starting prednisone I was told that bone thinning was an effect of prednisone so I took my calcium and Vitamin D supplements, bought a pedometer and started walking more. It was at my request that I finally had a scan in September where the osteopenia was diagnosed. Even when I had the broken leg no one suggested a scan would be a good idea. All I knew was that the bone healed rapidly and well, I had not needed surgery.

      After the diagnosis my GP recommended medication but by then I had started hearing about the potential for horrific side effects, so turned her down and started serious research. I started by talking to my friends. Two of them had successfully moved from osteoporosis range into osteopenia through non-medical means. One remains faithful to her regimen and continues to improve, the other has slacked off and become osteoporotic again. Suggestions from the more dedicated person included Nordic walking and parkour but she does not have polymyalgia (PMR). She also has taken various supplements under the advice of a herbalist. I am not ruling out her methods but am not following in her path, although I may take up Nordic walking sometime in the future. I tell you about her because her experience is what gives me real hope that non-pharmaceautical methods work. A sister-in-law was taking Fosamax but had to discontinue because of side effects (I don’t know what the side effects were).

      I have done a lot of reading. You'll find several good sites on the internet but if they are heavily promoting certain products it is a good idea to balance their advice with what you read elsewhere. I am convinced that the following regimen is the best for me, and I expect to be adding to this, and modifying things, as I continue to learn more:

      Exercise: I have a weighted walking vest which allows me to gradually add small amounts of weight. This is to challenge the skeleton to lay down more bone. I am learning Tai Chi which is not only excellent for improving balance (helps to avoid those bone-breaking falls) but has been shown to improve bone density. I use my pedometer to make sure I get 10,000 steps a day. At present this includes all my daily activity, not just my walks. I may increase this in the future. I also carry on with long-standing physio exercises for osteoarthritis and practice a bit of yoga.  Have recently started doing nordic walking.

      Diet - well balanced, with the following supplements: 

      Calcium 

      Vitamin D3

      Vitamin K2 (K2-4 and/orK2-7, K2-7 is preferred)  Please note that Vitamin K2 (not K1) is nearly absent from modern diets, and is the vitamin that guides calcium into our bones rather than letting it collect in our organs or inside our blood vessels. Unless you have access to grass fed cattle and their products, and free range hens eggs (not grain fed) you will almost certainly need to supplement this vitamin.

      Sources of Vitamin  A   I've read conflicting advice about whether retinol or beta carotene is better, and have decided that natural sources (food, or maybe cod liver oil) are safer choices than taking a chance with the latest fad in supplements.

      You should have enough vitamin E in your regular diet, otherwise make sure you get a mixed tocopherol version

      Magnesium

      Cod liver oil for A and D content. 

      The reading I have done includes websites and books. As I indicated above, always read with a critical eye and take the best ideas from everywhere. I don’t think anyone has all the answers, and also we are each different, will have varying risk factors and so forth. But I hope my experience gives you some ideas, and also some ammunition as you withstand the medical profession’s strangely strong idea that we must take their dangerous medicines!  

      I'll private message bibliography to anyone who asks.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Hi Jean,

        ​Like Colin I am very impressed with your story. 

        ​I agree that we take various hints/suggestions from others and find out own best solution.

        ​I am a -4 on the Dexa scale, so am well aware that I am at a high risk.  I am trying to slowly improve myself/exercise/supplements/diet as best I can.  Being on the HRT is apparently a good thing, over time, but obviously I have to get into a good regime now, to encompass what the future might bring.  I am being referred to a Rheumatologist as I tried the AA and I did not like it, making me feeling a bit giddy.  I have researched other things which I feel may be better for me in the future; though at the moment am hoping that what I am doing/will do will help.  The GP thinks that it is probably the high doses of Prednisalone (I think that is the same as Preidnisone) as a child that could have brought the OP. but tells me there is no way to know for certain. sad

        ​One questions:  at what point can/does OP turn into Osteopenia?  Or are they completely different?

        ​I am sure what I am reading would explain this but I have not got that far yet.

        Your weighted jacket sounds like a very good idea smile 

        ​Apologies; another question, what is Nordic Walking?

         I would certainly be interested in seeing more of your bibliography, as I am strongly of the opinion that all knowledge is useful smile

        ​I, myself, have been doing far more walking, and trying to exercise more; trying to balance with my other medical conditions. 

        ​Taking the K2, Zinc, Magnesium, Slow Release Vitamin C (the slow release is best for the immune system as it does what it says 'on the tin' so to speak.  If we take one large dose of vitamin C we 'pee it out' as a past GP happily told me!

        ​iCal-D3, natural Gelatin - for the soft tissue - Turmeric for joint pain. 

        ​Trying to eat more fish but find it hard!!  So your suggestion of Cod Liver Oil  a good one, though I have been wondering about Omega 3, 6, 9 instead of.

        I would add that trying to relax more is important - so your yoga and T'ai Chi sensible, and funnily I have been wondering about T'ai Chi myself, Yoga I am not keen on as I pulled a muscle once!

        ​I am constantly interested in whatever suggestions ppl might make as all information useful smile

        ​kindest regards Carrie

         

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        Thanks Carrie.  I'll send along the bibliography by private message soonish.  Nordic walking is walking with poles, looks like cross country skiing without the or the skis!  Your regimen looks interesting too.  There are some supplements I haven't bothered with - Vitamin C only when I have a cold, for instance, as I think I get a lot in my diet.  but I started taking E again after a lapse of some years because I had cut back so much on my consumption of bread.  Same with B vitamins.  My understanidng is that -2.5 is ocnsidered the beginning of osteoporosis, but in certain respects the numbers are arbitrary.  A small woman is almost automatically going to be osteopenic because her bones are smaller than the average used to calculate these things.  In fact I've heard that the levels vary from country to country, depending on the dominant body type. So who knows, really?  I have found tai chi hard to learn, so it's good for the brain as well as the body....  Gradually getting a handle on it!cool

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Hi Jean,

        ​Just messaged you.....thank you, gonna take some time to read it all but much appreciated smile

        Ahhhh re Nordic Walking....I might have to give that one a miss tho! lol

        ​Vitamin C I started years ago on an alternative practictioner's advice, and I am sure it helps ward off a lot of infections I might otherwise catch.  I do take a large dose, but suits me.

        ​Vitamin E I must look into for sure.  As it would be good for my skin too. 

        ​Yes I got told the numbers of the OP scale were arbitary....but interesting that a small woman is is likely to be osteopenic....sad

        ​Hm re the Tai Chi....I didn't realise it was hard to learn....might still have a look for local classes though smile

        ​Take care, kind regards Carrie

      • Juno-Irl-Dub Juno-Irl-Dub Anhaga

        Hi Anhaga, Can you expand a bit on Tai Chi improving bone density? I only knew about improvement in balance. Like yourself, I relly hate doing floor exercises and have to force myself. If I thought that some bone gain could result from  Tai Chi, I'd sign up as I love the idea of any activity that can be done out in the open - as opposed to a sweaty exercise class . . . .   Kind regards, J 

      • Anhaga Anhaga Juno-Irl-Dub

        Hi Juno. If you google tai chi and bone density you should find articles on reputable sites that indicate either that bone strength is actually improved, or that the rate of bone loss is significantly slowed.  So it's only part of a whole suite of activites that can be undertaken to keep bones strong, or help to improve them.  I have to say I've quite taken to Nordic walking - much more fun than I expected it would be.  My next DXA scan not until October, so only then will I have any idea if any of my hard work has paid off!  I do the yoga and physio exercises while watching tv or listening to the radio in the comfort and privacy of my own home.

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        Carrie, re tai chi - when I first started, I'd tell my friends that if there was a word to describe one's whole body as "all thumbs" that would be me and tai chi.  However, after several months of plugging away, attending a once a week class and practicing at home a few days a week, I'm beginning to get the hang of it.  I think it could be the improved coordination I've apparently developed which has helped me master Nordic walking so quickly!

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Jean

        ​:D .....Goes to show that perseverance pays off smile

        ​Anything that improves co-ordination has to be good.  I have been mulling it over for a while but not done anything about it yet....maybe you've given me the push I need! lol wink

        ​.......think I might still give Nordic Walking a miss for now!! lol

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Juno-Irl-Dub Juno-Irl-Dub Anhaga

        Anhaga, do you actually so Nordic walking on ordinary footpaths or just out in parks or countryside. ??  I'd feel more than a bit self-conscious doing this . .  Re. floor exercises at home - yes I do about 4  back-strengthening ones at home, but God the're so boring with or without radio/TV  . . .  

        I'm going to research Tai Chi as I think that could be quite enjoyable. Thanks,  J.

        J

      • Anhaga Anhaga Juno-Irl-Dub

        I didn't take up this Nordic walking until two weeks ago. I always thought it looked so foolish!  Then one day I happened to see a woman walking rather slowly and stopped to chat.  She said she was using the poles because she had balance issues, but she didn't look odd, just walking effortlessly.  So some months later I took a free workshop and bought the poles.  Went along my own street one morning, thought it was much easier than I expected.  I've since gone out quite a few times, and feel quite okay, much to my own surprise!  It has already helped my posture.  So yes you can walk anywhere.  I wouldn't go along a crowded city street, but certainly a quiet neighbourhood, a walking trail, a park, perhaps even a beach or through fields but I'd want to be more accustomed to them before trying that.  Nowadays most people are interested, and more and more are starting to use them.

      • Anhaga Anhaga

        And yes, the physio exercises are the most boring activites on the planet, but for me they are just automatic.  My incentive was a belief that I would gradually become crippled if I didn't do them.  I thought I was having a stroke, a feeling of numbness down one side of my body.  Got thoroughly checked out at the hospital.  My GP said the only remaining possibility was issues with my back and sent me off to the physiotherapist.  

    • kathleen65757 kathleen65757 Anhaga

      As I have tiny bones I suspect that they are quite strong although been judged as not dense. 

      I think we start with our diet and then build on it realising that we have impacted the quality of our foods by overtaxing the environment and even putting poisons into the soil in an endeavour to expedite growth.

      Anyone who falls can break a bone and some people with osteoporosis fall and do not break a bone. It is not a given but precautions need to be taken by all elderly people.

      I knew something was wrong when I hesitated taking fosamax (AA) when I take medications for other conditions like diabetes and Crohns.

      The drugs for osteoporosis have been given too readily and the doctors have not been told of the dangers. I know this from my own lovely GP.

      More thorough research needs to happen. People need to report all side effects not just stop the drugs as the warnings are not there and the drugs are said to be safe!

       

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 kathleen65757

        It does seem that the dexascan system needs an analysis area where things like bone size can be taken into account. I've seen mention twice of incorrect diagnosis because of the bone size but have never come across news of any attempt by those in power to do anything to rectify this or the machine-to-machine discrepancies. The whole system is rather hit & miss. It is just more examples of the problems that are encountered at every turn because of stupidity, ignorance and refusal to rock a very shaky boat. There is also a lack of qualified systems analysis personnel who can look at an overall picture and suggest solutions and remedies for faulty systems. They cost too much and there are too few of them!

        If I try to contact my Dr. about anything, I have a two month minimum wait and then he expects me to want a prescription or an examination. He just isn't interested in listening to and noting comments about side effects or problems with his prescribed medication. I have more luck with a locum. I would change surgeries but hearsay puts most of the local practices as being similar. Too busy chasing targets to have much interest in the people who they are there to serve.

      • kathleen65757 kathleen65757 Aristotle13

        My Dexa machine is a mobile one so fairly sure it is the same one but you never know.

        My bones look okay on an X-ray which would have noted something like fragile. My GP was surprised at that. X-ray picked up two bulging discs and mild scoliosis and the latter is fairly common in older people.

        The Bowen treatments helped my sacroiliac because I am not so susceptible to reacting to chairs but it was not cured.

        I can feel problems in my back but most likely coming from the discs.

        I am lucky to have such a good GP.

        Just back from three and half weeks with the grandkids and I am missing them terribly, almost grieving. They live 800 kms away.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 kathleen65757

        Hi Kathleen,

        ​How interesting that you hesitated with AA like me; I have a hodge podge of other medical complaints and quite happily take what I need for them without question ie asthma, painkillers for the osteo arthritis/M.E./Fibromyalgia, but something made me check out the AA and now I am trying to follow a healthier diet, exercise more as best I can, am on HRT which in theory I am told will help, and am waiting to see a Rheumatologist. 

        ​Interesting what you say about not everyone with OP breaking bones too which is something I kind of assumed.    You are lucky to have a lovely GP and I agree the Doctors do seem to give you the AA too readily.

        ​Take care, kind regards Carrie

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Colin, you are so right in what you say.  Terrible you have such a long wait to see your GP; though I have a 2 week wait at the moment.  If I want to see 'any other Dr' that is fine, but trying to see someone in particular seems almost impossible to do.

        ​kindest regards Carrie

      • Anhaga Anhaga Aristotle13

        What I'm reading now is by a woman who's become an expert in densitometry.  She describes the problems with DXA machines, some of which can be traced to a lack of training for the clinicians (this is a US context so may be different in both UK and Canada).  She also shows how useful DXA is when used properly.  Her name is lani simpson.

      • Anhaga Anhaga kathleen65757

        Re the drugs - it's even worse now that so many doctors prescribe the medication when the patient has "osteopenia" which isn't even a real disease and does not inevitably lead to osteoporosis as censored would like us to believe.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Sounds interesting.  I'm still working my way thru the other book at the moment.  Interestingly, and I can't remember which one of us said this, but the jumping exercises listed seem to aggravate my ankles and legs; I'm not sure if that is my M.E./Fibro or whether it is the OP, either way, think I may have to bypass that particular exercise for now.  Walking is ok and I am working up a slightly better speed at times smile  I think that probably as with all things, it is a question of building up gradually and seeing what works and what doesn't smile

        ​xx

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        It is also worth noting a comment I saw when researching this that jumping can lead to prolapsed uterus.  I think we elderly females are better off with the impact of going up and (especially) downstairs, walking on hard surfaces, etc.  If the old feet can handle it!wink

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 carrie94038

        Hi Carrie, Eileen, Jean, Jill & Kathleen

        Good wishes for your healthy bones to all of you.

        Most of you are aware of my determination to heal myself without AA or any other engine cleaning agents.

        For me, this involves getting the supplements right, getting the diet right, getting the alkaline / acid balance correct and maintained, and exercising every day.

        I am luckier than most who are trying this in that my OP was discovered at a fairly early stage and I only have minor OA which doesn't affect my ankles and only my right knee a little. So I am able to pursue the stepping / jumping exercise regime (with care).

        I had absolutely no problems with the stepping on and stepping off a 7.5cm (3 inches) step and usually do 50 step on and 50 step off in sequence.

        The jumping was different in that I hadn't attempted any form of jumping for many years and I had to work up to this gradually by just jumping on the spot. Once I found that I could do 10 of those without any problems, I began jumping onto and off the step, both feet together and landing rather flat footed but not enough to jar my spine. The all took place a couple of weeks ago and I now find that I can manage 50 on / off jumps in one session without too much trouble. At home, I have made a similar step to the one at the gym so that I can exercise every day and hopefully not seize up too quickly. The book and a trainer at the gym both suggest that a skipping rope could afford extra benefit so I need to visit the local sports shop and see if they have something suitable.

        The supplements are slowly coming under control and I have the list of 18 as suggested by the book. Because some of these seem to work against each other, sorting out the daily order is another minor task to take care of. I found an all-in-one pill on an American site which would have been eminently suitable but they have been discouraged from mailing to the UK. So it's back to do-it-yourself. The alkaline / acid thing may take some sorting out but it's only a matter of time. Have to obtain some dip-sticks (graduated), first. The food is also going to be awkward since I have to consider my wife and particularly my daughter as well. My daughter has many more food intolerances than I, and some are quite serious.

        I'm more than three-quarters of the way through the book and have learnt much although how much will stick is yet to be tested. I also have the book from the other bones site and have yet to begin that (only so many hours in a day).

        When I find significant items, I do try to post the information so that all may appraise it and make their own decisions. I will make my own decisions but am happy to change my mind if someone or some book comes up with a better answer.

        One of the best decisions I made was to give up AA. Haven't looked back since. The next best decision was to eat a kiwi-fruit a day (small bag of six is 59p) for six days and not on the seventh day. Many vitamins in kiwifruit and a bit wary of overdosing. Obviously I take calcium, vitamins D3, K2, B complex, zinc, copper, magnesium and folic acid at the moment. I'm not certain that I need the others just now.

        That may change. Also eat apples, bananas, plums, dried sticky prunes (6 per day) and pineapple chunks. I also only have one caffeinated drink a day and will have my last mini white wine this evening. I practise the keeping calm thing so that I keep my acid levels lowish.

        So I'm getting there slowly and I am willing to use any information that anyone else has the pertains to the better bones project that I am putting together for myself with a little help from my friends.

        Sorry that this is all about me but I needed to clarify for myself (me again) where I was coming from and where I am going.

        Kindest regards to all

        May your bones strengthen and become more dense.

        Aristotle

        aka Colin.

         

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin, Eileen, Jean, Jill and Kathleen,

        ​Congratulations Colin on all you have done smile  I am still working my way thru the book so am a bit behind - other stuff has got in the way at the moment unfortunately and time seems to race thru each day at an alarming speed sad - I am now taking a one vitamin multivitality gold as well which includes a lot of the B vitamins and the copper, this is as well as my icalD, magnesium, vit c, K2, Zinc ....and I am still taking the natural gelatin in the hope that is 'oiling the joints' so to speak!  I stopped the turmeric as my skin was playing up, but am beginning to wonder if it was indeed helping the pain levels as my wrists are far more painful at the moment sad  I am thinking of also getting a cod liver oil supplement as I am not keen on oily fish!  I am trying to walk daily, and to do a little more exercise if I am able....I'm also still doing my hand exercises as the soft tissue in my wrists after break last year especially where I had to have pins to support the bones, are being rather stubborn in doing what I and the physio wish!! sad

        ​Please do not apologise for clarifying things Colin, I am eager to learn all I can and feel all information is good and something I can try or look into smile  I think supporting each other as best we can is a big step smile

        ​I do hope Pauline not suffering too much and you had a good weekend.  Fairly busy one here so I must admit to feeling rather tired this evening so apologies if I do not reply again this evening. 

        ​Hear hear on your 'may your bones strengthen and become more dense'! :D 

        ​Will try and talk more another occasion but as I said ...tired tonight! 

        Please take care all and may all our pain lessen smile

        ​kindest regards Carrie

         

      • Handbrake Handbrake Aristotle13

        Loved this post Colin, and clarity is great for all of us🤗 ! I'm really interested in the acid/ alkaline thing if you have any more info. It's a bit confusing when oranges that you would think are acid have an alkaline effect on the body😳

        Kindest regards

        Patty

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Handbrake

        Hi,

        ​All I know is that my Dr and the National Osteoporosis Society as well as other information I have read seem to point that if my oestrogen levels increase with my HRT then it will help protect my bones.  The book I am reading...can private message you if interested...Colin passed the details on to me....seems to show varying data as obviously HRT has varying effects on our body.  HRT does not seem to be the preferred use for OP; just one angle/aspect.  It seems to have to be weighed up with other medical issues each person is going through/suffering with.  EG if breast cancer runs in ones family as it does with a friend, then the GP will stop HRT fast!  It seems a very moot issue.  sad  If I were you I would discuss it with your GP and see what they say.  Good luck.  kind regards Carrie

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin and Patty

        ​Interesting....I had forgotten about the acid/alkaline balance....oranges tend to upset my asthma else I would eat more of them sad  I know antibiotics affect things which is why I take or try and remember to take (!) an acidophillus supplement to balance the good and bad bacteria out in the gut smile  Eating yoghurt would have the same effect apparently but would have to be taken daily.....there is something else, the name of which escapes me at mo. 

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        Not that I'm recommending it, but apparently bio-identical HRT is available and it doesn't have the same problems as the original HRT which is manufactured from mares' urine.

      • Anhaga Anhaga Handbrake

        Handbrake, bio-identical HRT is apparently much safer than the standard, which is manufactured from pregnant mares' urine.  You'd really need to talk to your doctor about restarting the HRT, preferably with the bio-identical.  Were you told to stop taking it?  Which kind were you on?  Pred actively interferes with bone formation and calcium absorption so it doesn't have, for bones anyway, the same effects as HRT.  You're relatively young, aren't you, so it makes sense for you to be on HRT for a while, barring any contraindications

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Hi Jean

        ​Do you mean like natural oestrogen or progesterone?  As I tried that from a well known company firstly and it did nothing.  Was on the pill for years prior and it suited me; I appreciate it doesn't suit everyone though.  At the moment I feel it was the right decision for me smile  But thank you smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        I know no more than that.  I know that standard HRT comes with high risk of cancer.  Apparently bio-identical does not.  I've no interest in nor need for this therapy so have no more information than that.

      • Handbrake Handbrake Anhaga

        Anhaga and Carrie,

        Thank you for your comments, I stopped HRT ( trial) when my Dr confirmed polymyalgia and agreed to start prednisolone. An interesting thing happened though whilst taking it, pains in my hips subsided then subsequently returned once I reached prednisolone doses of 2mg or less. I didn't give it much thought at the time. I've also found out that soy isoflavine of 35 mg a day for 12 weeks can have a positive effect on bone density,plasma lipids and cognitive abilities post menapause but over 75 gm can cause lumber bone loss as do progesterone creams used with soy isoflavines.

      • Handbrake Handbrake carrie94038

        Carrie,

        yes alkaline diet is an interesting one,interesting findings for me were finding that raisins were strongly alkaline yet fish was acidic! (Think I was surprised that a good source of calcium wasn't so good for alkaline diet requirements! ) this author claimed to have built up his bone density with magnesium supplements alone.

      • Handbrake Handbrake Anhaga

        Yes Anhaga, still searching for something to target lower back density, seeing my Physio tomorrow she has already suggested Pilates to work on core strength and read today that vibration plates can improve bone density in hips 🤗

      • Anhaga Anhaga Handbrake

        There are a couple of different kinds of vibration plates, apparently.  No nonsense bone health guide suggests the kind which is gentle, not the one that gives a bone-rattling shake.  I'd have thought weight bearing exercise generally would improve strength throughout the spine.  Will be interested to hear what you learn for the lower back.  

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Handbrake

        Hi Jean and Handbrake,

        ​Interesting that the prednisalone seems to need a certain strength for the pain to ease off.  As Jean says  it is quite a balancing act and so not

        easy sad

        ​Soy Isaflavones I was on for a while too until the HRT and of course the Eastern side of the world eat far more soya products than us and when I was researching a way forward for me I tried eating more soya.  That has fallen by the wayside a little now unfortunately.  sad  I didn't know they could have a positive effect on our bones though at certain levels, so maybe I should be relooking at adding a bit more soya to my diet again.

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Handbrake

        Hi Handbrake,

        Interesting.....it seems more and more that what suits one person isn't necessarily the right way for another and we just have to experiment and try until we hit the right way for us.

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        I wouldn't fall off or pile onto the soy bandwagon without looking up the latest research.  The book you and Aristotle are reading is several years old and there's been a lot of research, and changing opinions.  At the library where I worked there were very strict rules about how long a medical book could be kept, and this particular book is way beyond the accepted shelf life.  That doesn't mean that the basic ideas aren't still as sound as ever, but the details, particularly those dealing with nutrition, could well do with a bit of updating.  I love her website, btw, and read the emails and her blog.

        As an example, a large study was done in 2009 about the acid/alkaline issue.  The book was published years earlier.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Hi Jean,

        Interesting....thank you smile 

        ​I will still plough thru the book but take on board what you say; I haven't done anything about soy yet ....I think my body is probably dealing with enough at present so baby steps with it all. smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 kathleen65757

        Hi Kathleen,

        A few minutes ago, I received the following post from Eileen:

        Hi, Whowever gets this message first please pass it on. I'm having promblems with the site so I'm coming off altogether. Also its chaotic here I did post a message but it wouldnt go through

        Love

        Eileen

        The is Colin now:

        I have sent a reply and a PM with an email address in case she wants to chat sometime. I shall miss her.

        Kindest regards

        Colin

    • jill0890 jill0890 Anhaga

      Several years ago there were some proponents to jumping (or even light bouncing) on small trampolines.  Studies were done to prove that bone density is built by doing so.  Astronauts apparently used them in space to keep their bone density....  

      • Anhaga Anhaga jill0890

        I'm sure that's true, but with the OA in my spine I'm not taking up the jumping which has been proposed here, which if I remember was fifty or perhaps one hundred jumps at a time.  I'll turn 69 in a couple of weeks.

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Anhaga

        Hi Jean

        I quite agree with your stance regarding the jumping. I have been visiting the gym for 8 years on a regular basis and had some confidence that I would be able to manage without adding to the damage although I was rather wary at first. I must take slight issue on one point however, the age card doesn't work, I'm older than you (71) but only feel like 18 (Never grew up).And I am teasing, sorry.

        It is really wise to know the limits of your own body regardless of your age. I'm just hoping that the jumping as recommended will fast-track things so that I can resume a more normal life, although I have quickly gotten used to a more healthy lifestyle.

        The biggest thing is to not make the damage worse.

        I do like your sensible outlook on life.

        Take care

        Kindest regards

        Colin

         

      • Anhaga Anhaga Aristotle13

        I gave my age as the other women are about 15 years younger than I, and I thought it pertinent.  And if it weren't for polymyalgia and steroid treatment I would have continued to feel young, and I had always looked younger than my age, but prednisone has a number of unpleasant side effects, including actual aging of the body.  cry

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Anhaga

        Haven't actually come across prednisone before but it sounds rather evil.

        Apparently I was never young and missed puberty almost completely so I always looked older than my age until around 60 when the aging process slowed right down. I didn't actually realise this for a couple of years but I kept having to show my driving licence to prove that I was entitled to free prescriptions and on enquiry found that I apparently looked younger than I am, so swings and roundabouts but absolutely no offence intended with my comments.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Hi Jean,

        ​I think all we can do is all we can do...and we have to do what suits us. Like you I have the OA, but also the M.E./Fibromyalgia, so jumping for 50-100 is not for me....I do a few now and then....but at the moment can't as my ankles are playing up.  Will stick with the walking for now smile kind regards Carrie

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin,

        ​Yes indeed, we all have to manage our own individual health issues as best we can smile  What works for one may not for someone else, but all information is useful and we can but try different things to see what does work smile

        ​kindest regards Carrie

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Jean,

        ​Prednisalone (I think the same as Prednisone isn't it) has indeed a lot of side effects and I was given it as a child for my asthma which they do not do nowadays.  They are assuming that is why I have OP now sad  My Father was on it all his life so I am well aware of all the side effects sad

        ​It does scare me that if my asthma spirals out of control again, that is what I will be given....so doing my best with what I have now and what I can do to help myself is all I can do.  Which is all any of us can do.

        ​You take care.  Kind Regards Carrie

         

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 carrie94038

        Hi Carrie,

        I came across a link to an OP presentation which you may already have seen but I'll send it anyway just in case you haven't. I found it to be quite good and fairly interesting.

        I'm fairly certain I have something else to send you but I've misplaced my notebook. It will come to light in the fullness of time! Will post a blog later when I've done things I need to do.

        Kind Regards

        Colin.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin,

        ​Thank you very much for that, I have watched it, and it is indeed interesting.  All the indications are that the bisphosphates need to be taken under certain conditions (ie like me with a -4 Dexa) but if you have a lower Dexa of -2.5 than it is not so clear whether they would help. 

        ​Hope you get done what you need to today smile  Take care, kind regards Carrie

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 carrie94038

        Hello Carrie

        Glad that the video link was useful and that you found it informative. I still believe that AA has too many nasty negatives to be on the market and as easily prescribed as it is without significant further investigation. We all have our views and it doesn't stop me watching these and comparing what I know with what they tell me.

        I managed to get most of my tasks completed and they involved a significant amount of exercise but not the jumping. Still some time for that. Got the car properley repaired as per RAC recommendation and also got the brake shoes freed off as they were binding and wasting fuel. Walked home and eventually back again to collect the car (Round trip around 3 miles). Got the grass cut in the interval between delivering and collecting the car and I'm hoping that the £80 it cost me will be worth it. Also got a lot of tree branches cut into fireside pieces so I've had some exercise today.

        Did the oily fish bit for lunch with some smoked mackeral followed by an apple so i've followed my program a little but have already fallen off the wagon with a very small sixth of a bottle of white wine (very naughty).

        Had a post from 'Handbrake' (Patty) looking for the book details so I messaged her when I came back from collecting the car. I passed on the details of two books, The Book and one dealing with Acid/Alkaline food.

        I wasn't nosey for once but I hope that she comes back and joins us.

        I managed some more collation of the various conversations and this time I've made a copy of what I have so that I shouldn't lose it again.

        I commented to Pauline about the similarity in some respects between OP and OA, particularly with regard to dietry considerations. We may try a little dietry manipulation but I think that some more reading is needed first.

        Feel more than a little sorry for Eileen who is so looking forward to her Venetian vacation. Pain can take the edge off enjoying a visit like that and it's no good taking the suggested narcotics, she's likely to miss it altogether. Hope that she gets her computer working again so that she can see that we are at least offering some support.

        I really wish that I knew a lot more than I do but fast-tracking is only ok up to a point and then I have to re-read things before they disappear.

        I think that it's time that I did a bit more on my story before I forget it all.

        Take good Care of Yourself and don't overdo it (that's good coming from me).

        Jumping Gym tomorrow

        Kind Regards

        Colin

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin,

        ​Apologies for being lax in responding on here, Life is overtaking me somewhat!  I will always respond but can't always straight off! lol

        ​I am still working my way through 'the book!' and the whole 'what is best' does seem very convoluted and difficult to know.  My gut reaction is to agree with you re AA which is why - bar the side effects - I stopped it.  I was intrigued that the link you forwarded seemed so much on the pluses of AA. 

        Wow you certainly got a lot of exercises in smile  and well done on the car being sorted now smile

        ​I have only just seen the message from Handbrake, but thanks, only just catching up a bit now and will have to stop in a mo and have some lunch myself.  Sticking with the pilchards which I know are not the same but I just cannot seem to enjoy the taste of sardines/mackerel sad  Another reason I need to consider a cod liver oil supplement which is on my loooooong list of things to catch up with/do/sort!!! 

        ​It would indeed by interesting re the correlation with OA/OP and be interesting what Pauline thinks.  I stopped my turmeric supplement for the pain a I was undecided whether it was helping or not, but being in such agony I thought 'ok' I will restart it and the pain is reduced!  So, I know the weather has changed and that might have something to do with it, it will be interesting if I carry on with it, whether the pain returns when the weather pressure changes, or not.  Will keep you posted!  IF it is indeed helping then I will message you with the details for Pauline to try smile  If she wants to try something in the meantime you could suggest she adds some natural turmeric to her food, sprinkle just a bit obviously not huge amounts!, or could even try a supplement.  Not the turmeric root though it has to be the real McCoy so to speak, Taka is a good brand smile

        ​I am still sticking with the natural gelatin to see smile

        ​:D re jumping Gym!  I will respond to a few other messages than will break for lunch and then try some gentle (!!) exercise this pm smile  Was gardening a bit yesterday - oh one point, in the book it mentions certain exercises as being not good for OP, like bending over, but obviously in something like gardening one is naturall bending over.  I am wondering if it is just 'sensible bending' and being careful 'not to fall' rather than cutting it out...what do you think?! smile

        ​Oh and yes, totally agree with Eileen....I really hope she is able to enjoy her trip and her pain decreases. 

        ​Have a good day smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

         

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 carrie94038

        Hello Carrie, Eileen, Jean, Kathleen & Patty

        It has been another busy day beginning with the visit to the gym. It was fairly quiet today and I had a free rein with my choice of machines but I still settled initially for the crosstrainer/stepper and managed a total of 250 calories woth of exercise on it. Followed that with the adductor/ abductor which are machines that force your legs open or which you have to force closed. Then straight onto the leg extension and the rotary knee and leg press.

        The manual stepping followed for another 100 operations and then some weight training with two 12kg weights. I only did two circuits of the gyn with the weights, my arms still ached from having tested the two 24kg weights which I could lift but not do anything with. Settled for 50 step jumps on and off. One of the ladies at the gym brough in a skipping rope for me to take home and try out. After all this I'd had enough and made tracks for home and found several posts and messages waiting for me.  Had lunch and settled down to answer the messages. I can easily get carried away with these and find that I don't often repeat myself as far as I can tell.  I wrote a welcome message to Patty and answered the other posts before I chopped some wood (more exercise) and lit the fire (It's still cold up here). Gave a little thought to Eileen but unfortunately there isn't anything that I can do except wish her well and hope that she is back with us soon.

        Watched a couple more of the movies re osteoporosis, one of them was very informative about our food and the other mentioned the 20 (used to be 18) nutrients that we need.

        Now Deep Space Nine time, back again tomorrow.

        Best regards to all

        Colin

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hello Colin, Jean, Eileen, Kathleen, Jill, Patty

        ​Fistly well done Colin on all that exercise ...as well as research smile  I hope shopping not too onerous (!) and you can enjoy some warm sunshine today.

        Apologies if anyone has messaged me or commented and I have not replied back yet; I am trying to juggle rather a lot at the moment - sounds like an excuse as we all are I know! lol - however I WILL get back to everyone it just takes me a little longer sometimes as I can't always reply immediately. 

        ​Thank you for any information, the alkaline/acid diet is something I have added to my list to look into, as have the links you forwarded Jean. 

        ​I am trying to exercise a bit more but in balancing that with the M.E./Fibromyalgia and the OA I am getting somewhat drained!  But......onwards....and hopefully the more I am able to do, the better it will be for ME smile 

        ​I am still looking into a cod liver oil supplement as I am not a big lover of oily fish, though interestingly I did not realise that pilchards were the same as sardines; I find this odd as I don't mind the taste of pilchards TOO much but am not so keen on sardines which I agree makes little sense unless perhaps it is as I am taking the pilchards in tomato sauce and tried the sardines in oil.....

        ​I have increased other supplements....went back on turmeric and interestingly it does seem to help the pain so perhaps as it is a natural anti inflammatory and pain reliever if I am able to tolerate the taste (I do follow the paste down with soya milk (I am dairy intolerant which again not good for bones), if anyone would like to know more about turmeric let me know in a message so the moderator's don't come down on me!!! lol

        ​Hope everyone has a good low pain day smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 carrie94038

        Hello Carrie, et al

        The shopping was fairly painless and a welcome break after reading the information mentioned in my previous post which was about a new progesterone treatment for osteoporosis. I need to reread this in context because I'm not 100% certain where this fits in for me. (Not well up on progesterone, always believed it was a female hormone - maybe it is, will check).

        While watching one of the videos, I came across mention of Chia seeds and have done a bit of research on these already and it seems that they are another wonder food from the early days of humans.  Now I need to determine the best way to consume these vitamin stores and they even have oil in them as well as calcium and other good things.

        The book about acid/alkaline foods is really interesting and when the testing slips eventually arrive I should be able tailor my diet to arrive at the slightly alkaline condition.

        Regarding the skipping rope, well, I had a go and found that the rope was too light and didn't keep it's shape so that it caught on things easily. I think that it's made of fibres covered with PVC and is very light which is probably perfect for a trained athlete but until I get more proficient it isn't satisfactory. I couldn't manage more than three steps without the 'rope' twisting and tangling. So the idea is good but the execution isn't. I wonder if I can get hold of a real rope one. Just did a quick check and I can get an 8mm x 3M three strand sisal rope so I'll give that a try. It'll be here in a few days. In the meantime it will just be steps and jumps and the gymnasium.

        I haven't heard from Eileen for a while but that may be due either to her computer being faulty, or she has gone on her long-awaited vacation.

        Either way, I think that I speak for the group in wishing her well.

        That's all for now.

        Best wishes & kindest regards to all

        Colin.

         

      • Anhaga Anhaga Aristotle13

        Chia seeds may be in some breakfast cereals.  I no longer eat the cereals I used to, as I've cut back on wheat and eliminated corn from my diet.  But here I can buy a mix of chia, buckwheat and a seed with a name I cannot use on this forum, and this I have as my bedtime snack, having soaked the seeds in organic 1% milk.  I think chia seeds could also be used in baking, they'd look like poppy seeds, but whether they would then just pass through undigested I don't know.rolleyes

      • Anhaga Anhaga Aristotle13

        Alkaline/acid diet.  I have a comment to make.  It sounds as though you plan to test your urine?  I bet that would be a waste of your time.  The body is designed to maintain a healthy ph and if it doesn't you're already so ill you're on your death bed.  There is no association between the amount of acid and calcium in the urine and the amount of calcium in the body.  Eating animal protein will increase the excretion of both these substances, but that same protein is also improving the absorption of calcium. 

      • Handbrake Handbrake Aristotle13

        Funnily enough I've just been looking at a bag of chia seeds in TK Max (did surprise me to see it there of all places !) apparently you can sprinkle it on anything salads, fish chicken. Just like you would sprinkle salt. Looked like a fine grained bird seed 😂😂😂 but sesame seeds are also good 

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin and everyone smile

        I have heard of Chia seeds but never tried them; will have to keep my eyes peeled smile

        ​Think I missed something with the seeds 'that cannot be named' as I don't know what they are!!? lol  Can someone msg me?  Thanks smile

        ​I am having a selection of seeds which I sprinkle on salads or scrambled eggs so maybe it is already in something I am already taking I don't know.

        ​I do hope Eileen is ok....I can't remember when she was due to be off on her holiday but I hope she is ok.

        ​LOL :D re the skipping rope Colin; I should 't laugh as I tried it a few years back with one of my nephews and was rubbish! lol  To think I used to skip loads as a girl/child.....!

        Glad the shopping was painless smile

        I still haven't had the time to look into the acid/alkaline diet but must do so.

        Hope everyone else ntb.

        ​kindest regards Carrie

         

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Jean,

        ​quick question, what cereals do you find better/use instead of ones with wheat?  Unless one buys gluten free which are so expensive (my nephew is a coeliac and diabetic so I realise and understand the pros and cons of wheat/gluten), they all mostly seem to contain wheat.

        ​And also, what about bread?  The gluten free bread is horrible!! 

        Thank you smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        I eat the seeds I believe I've mentioned already - mixture of chia, buckwheat and a seed whose name I cannot use on this forum.  It comes in a small package and I find it on the shelf with the other organic cereals.  It's Canadian but might be available in the US or you could mix your own from the basic ingredients.  The third ingredient begins with an h.  Sometimes I have rolled oats.  I eat a little bread, not every day even, and have been eating rye crackers and a product that looks like nachos but is made from beans, from the US.  Frankly I don't bother looking for gluten free.  I don't think the gluten is a problem for me.  I was just trying to avoid carbohydrates because my blood sugar went quite high when I was first on prednisone, and I'm happy with the changes I've made so not in any hurry to go back to eating wheat or any other grains in any quantity.  Quinoa makes a nice change from rice and potatoes, so it goes into the rotation.  Always eat certified gmo free rice from the US, get Canadian organic oats.  I can also get oats in a form that looks, and cooks, like rice, although it has a different, nuttier flavour.

      • Anhaga Anhaga Aristotle13

        Aristotle, Eileen, Carrie, et al.  We bung up the thread by constantly telling each other that we are going to message them, and also acknowledging receiving the messages in a public post.  I don't have any problem seeing on my computer that there are messages waiting for me, and I always read them when I go on line.  Because this and the other thread now take so long to load I'm in the habit of leaving the posts on them to the very end.  I also follow numerous posts in the PMR forum, and none of them take as long to load.  People are not concerned about starting new topics, or even a new thread on a similar topic.  Much less unwieldy to just start a new thread.  The information on the old threads will never be lost, it's still here if we want to refer back.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Anhaga

        Hi Jean,

        ​OK, yes know which seeds you mean beginning with 'H'!

        ​Hmmm never been overly keen on oats in the past but maybe I ought to look into them again as our tastebuds do seem to change over time smile

        ​I underweight, so am trying to eat more to protect my bones! lol  No, apart from for my nephew who has to have gluten free, I don't too much.  Did try Quinoa but didn't like it!! Did have some rice recently and must try again. 

        Thank you for that smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Anhaga Anhaga carrie94038

        I lost a lot of weight when I was undiagnosed with polymyalgia and haven't really put any back on.  It is hard to get enough calories without resorting to lots of carbs.  I do consume healthy fats.  At least I didn't get the prednisone side effects of moon face and buffalo hump!

      • Handbrake Handbrake Anhaga

        Hi Jean and all strong bone fellows, yes i agree our discussion here is getting a bit long for my iPad to cope with so I will start up a new post Strong Bones support (2)so we can continue our vital support 🤗🤗🤗

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin,

        ​Can you get over to the new link/thread?  We can continue chatting on that?  Else if you want to start a thread for support, I am happy to join as like you I do not want to lose our little support group! smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

      • Handbrake Handbrake kathleen65757

        Hi Kathleen, sorry you are having trouble.if you go to the top of this page and see search box on the right hand side enter Strong bones support group 2 then once in click follow discussions and you will receive notifications 🤗

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Handbrake

        Hi Patty,

        I'm not sure if you knew Eileen but here goes:

        A few minutes ago, I received the following post from Eileen:

        Hi, Whowever gets this message first please pass it on. I'm having problems with the site so I'm coming off altogether. Also its chaotic here I did post a message but it wouldn't go through

        Love

        Eileen

        The is Colin now:

        I have sent a reply and a PM with an email address in case she wants to chat sometime. I shall miss her.

        Kindest regards

        Colin

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Aristotle13

        Hi Colin,

        ​Aww that is sad about Eileen.  I hope she stays in touch with you, please pass on my hope she is ok. 

        ​Things a bit chaotic my end too hence not being on so much.....but I will be back on soon hopefully smile

        Take care

        ​kindest regards Carrie

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 carrie94038

        Hi Carrie

        Sent you a PM regarding subject. So sad, I thought that she was picking up but obviously has other problems. Maybe in the future....

        Kindest Regards and please don't overdo it. A couple of lines that you are still fighting on is quite enough if it saves stress which is not good for your bones.

        Thanks for responding

        Kindest Regards

        Colin.

    • jill0890 jill0890 Anhaga

      Curious too about this seed that starts with "h" and the other unmentionable one....  biggrin   Someone message me what those are??!?!?

      • Anhaga Anhaga jill0890

        The seed happens to share a name with a plant which has an unfortunate reputation of being used only by people who want to get high although there is a strong movement to decriminalize its use, and it is already an accepted and very safe medicine used in a number of diseases. It is also a useful fibre for making a coarse fabric not unlike jute.  There is an oil made from the leaves which is completely non-psychotropic, as are the seeds, and yet I cannot name the oil either or I get censored.  The oil is supposed to be very good for treating inflammation.

    • Handbrake Handbrake Anhaga

      Thanks Jean,Strong Bones Support group (2) is now opened please follow so we can continue further discussion

      🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

       

    • Evelyn63 Evelyn63 Anhaga

      Hi, Im totally new to all this and trying to read as much as possible before I have to have my review with my GP.  as regards vitamins, I notice a lot of you mention K2, is there anyway I can get this combined with calcium and Vit D or shoudl I buy them separately ?  Thanks you 

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Evelyn63

        Hi Evelyn, You can definitely get caliun and vitamin D3 as Adcal-D3. If you're in the UK you can get these on prescription but check the prices first.

        As far as I know, the K2-7 vitamin is only on it's own but there's plenty of sources with different values. There is no fixed dose of K2-7. Apparently it has a few days half-life so even with the 75 microgram dose that I get I can guarantee that my body will have an adequate supply.

        We mention K2-7 because without this, the calcium will only be clagged on your bones in miniscule amounts. K2-7 is essential and gives it a good start. You'll also need zinc and various other things. I have a link to a site which tells you about these things and I can private message it to you if you want it. The moderators won't let me put it on this forum.

      • Aristotle13 Aristotle13 Evelyn63

        It just occured to me that being new here you may not know about private messages.

        You can access messages sent to you by following the notification email but if you want to send one, you need to click on the small grey envelope below one of the receivers posts star number.

        If you already are aware of this, just ignore this message.

      • carrie94038 carrie94038 Evelyn63

        Hi Evelyn,

        ​I take a multivitality tablet that includes boron and all sorts of other nutrients that are mentioned as helping, if you want I can pm you.

        ​Don't forget about taking zinc with your vitamins too smile

        ​kind regards Carrie

    • kathleen65757 kathleen65757 Anhaga

      Not sure why this popped up on the list for this week but I miss some of the people on here. They were ground breakers in the topic of trying the natural route instead of the drugs.

      I believe it is worthwhile to at least try the natural route before resorting to the drugs.

      Thanks Anhaga for highlighting this again.

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